Rendered at 21:58:29 GMT+0000 (Coordinated Universal Time) with Cloudflare Workers.
estearum 1 days ago [-]
Seems to me that Starlink is de facto an organ of the US government at this point. Should just be nationalized so a demonstrably unstable foreigner doesn't control something of such vital importance.
DennisP 1 days ago [-]
The Starshield portion of Starlink is already controlled by the government. It was Starshield that restricted access to Ukraine, and the decision reportedly came from the White House.
OP's article of course is about spectrum allocation in the US and potential trade retaliation, which isn't all that related to Musk's control of Starlink.
estearum 1 days ago [-]
Current reporting is that Musk approached the White House with the idea of slowing down Starshield.
And the situation here is that Musk's instability is causing Europe to want to not depend on Starlink, and by extension not depend on the US. So now we're using other organs of the state to essentially coerce them into using a system that is de facto controlled by an unstable foreigner, but is part of the US defense apparatus.
It was cut off, not slowed. Maybe Musk tried to lessen the impact of raging Cheetos?
estearum 23 hours ago [-]
I think "slowed down" is a strange description of what happened, which is that it was cut off above a certain speed limit. As in a terminal physically traveling faster than (IIRC) 100 miles per hour would shut off.
throw0101a 22 hours ago [-]
Perhaps also worth noting that Starlink is used only for defensive purposes, specifically against "Shahed" drones, which have top speeds of 340 km/h (210 mph). Restricting the speed is effectively helping Putin/Russia murder civilians.
dzhiurgis 22 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
estearum 22 hours ago [-]
What? I genuinely don't understand your theory. Can you re-state it?
It seems like you're saying the reporting "Elon Musk approaches White House with proposal to add travel speed limit to Starshield in Ukraine, which severely degrades Ukrainian defense" cannot possibly be because Musk and/or the White House want to damage Ukraine?
dzhiurgis 19 hours ago [-]
Are you taking the telegraph reporting seriously?
estearum 11 hours ago [-]
Oh! I get it.
Musk didn’t do this, therefore the reporting is wrong.
The reporting is wrong, therefore Musk didn’t do this.
We don’t even need countervailing evidence. The whole perfect circular structure is right there for all to see.
Makes total sense!
Lio 1 days ago [-]
> and the decision reportedly came from the White House.
That looks like outdated information. The request to slow Starshield came directly from Musk.
Which sounds more plausible - that Musk is able to bypass the US government to do whatever he wants with Starshield in Ukraine or that the US administration did this to comply with Trump's wishes to remind the Ukrainians that they are dependent on the US and cannot ignore the wishes of the US President?
estearum 10 hours ago [-]
Nothing says Musk bypassed the government. The currently reported story is that Musk (presumably seeing Trump was throwing in his lot with Russia), approached the White House with an idea, and the White House agreed to it.
jjav 19 hours ago [-]
> The Starshield portion of Starlink is already controlled by the government.
How do you suggest this is implemented, in a way that Musk has no way to control it?
17 hours ago [-]
gonight 1 days ago [-]
The idea of a drug addicted undocumented immigrant being in charge of our space program and sat comms does seem incredibly unwise.
usrnm 1 days ago [-]
Wait till you hear about Wernher von Braun
estearum 1 days ago [-]
Oh god did he disrupt active US/allied military operations?
usrnm 1 days ago [-]
Dude, he was a literal German Nazi, the weapons he made were killing US and allied soldiers and civilians during the WWII
estearum 24 hours ago [-]
Wait you mean he was doing that while he was employed by or claimed loyalty to the US?
That’s crazy. We didn’t charge him with treason?
CrimsonRain 1 days ago [-]
who stopped you from catching rockets and sending up thousands of sats? can only rage and take, never make. Typical.
mcphage 1 days ago [-]
[flagged]
skeledrew 24 hours ago [-]
TBF he didn't waste it. He did stuff that continually surprised the public, and the world is generally better off for it. No comment on his politics.
throw0101a 22 hours ago [-]
> He did stuff that continually surprised the public, and the world is generally better off for it. No comment on his politics.
How does the good things he may have done commercially weighed against his help and support to get Trump getting elected a second time? Is "the world generally better off" with Trump in Whitehouse now?
skeledrew 21 hours ago [-]
As I said, can't comment on his politics. And Trump would've been in regardless IMO. What I can say is I've been a very happy user of Starlink since I bought my kit a few years ago (other internet solutions in my area are crap in comparison), and Musk made it happen. And there's still nobody else close even today.
mcphage 19 hours ago [-]
I never said he wasted it. The person I responded to said “why don’t you do what he did”.
CrimsonRain 6 hours ago [-]
If you can't do it (create massive progress for society), don't complain when someone else does it.
gavin-1 1 days ago [-]
[flagged]
CamperBob2 18 hours ago [-]
Should just be nationalized so a demonstrably unstable foreigner doesn't control something of such vital importance.
Yes, clearly a demonstrably unstable chief executive is the right man for the job.
tormeh 1 days ago [-]
Unfortunately Trump is worse than Musk. And it's Trump who's to blame for the Ukraine speed restrictions.
estearum 1 days ago [-]
Current reporting is that Musk approached the White House with the idea. Of course in reality the White House holds all ultimate responsibility, but that doesn't mean Musk is without guilt (especially if he proposed the idea for... some reason...?)
thisislife2 11 hours ago [-]
Why should Musk feel guilty about an administration's decision that he has no influence over?
estearum 9 hours ago [-]
I don't care whether he feels guilty. He is guilty. And as described above (as well as in many ways not described above), he does have influence over it.
majorchord 1 days ago [-]
You think Trump wouldn't immediately promote Musk to General?
andrewflnr 1 days ago [-]
I would be a bit surprised, actually, just because they did have a giant public spat around the end of Musk's weird temp job in DOGE.
Then that would be why you're continually baffled that they keep winning.
andrewflnr 5 hours ago [-]
What makes you think I'm "baffled"? It's not that hard to figure out.
If they were actually 5d chess players, you would expect their governance decisions to be less calamitously stupid, to at least achieve their evil goals if not their stated policy goals. The only thing they actually do well is enrich themselves, and that's just not that hard.
ted_bunny 4 hours ago [-]
Calamitous for everyone but them. If you oppose them, avoid underestimating them. Playing dumb is the oldest trick in the book because it invites your adversaries to sabotage themselves by aiming low.
andrewflnr 4 hours ago [-]
No it's pretty often calamitous for them too.
ted_bunny 3 hours ago [-]
Trump will not be successfully impeached. Musk will not be bankrupted. And neither is going to jail. A calamity for their office, nation, or stakeholders is not their concern, unless you take them at their word. What calamities are you referring to?
cindyllm 4 hours ago [-]
[dead]
estearum 12 hours ago [-]
Lmfao. No one is confused about how billions of dollars, shallow populist “policy”, and the largest news outlets in the country literally knowingly regurgitating false propaganda could win elections.
It’s not some brilliant “kayfabe,” it’s just retard populism, same as it ever was. Now it’s just come to a country with 1) virtually no controls on private political funding and 2) extreme wealth inequality. It would be utterly shocking if it didn’t result in corrupt retards getting elected.
ted_bunny 3 hours ago [-]
They don't have to be brilliant. They only have to outplay the rubes, which seems to keep happening. And it's correlated with them being consistently underestimated. But if you feel like you're winning in some way, by all means stay the course.
estearum 2 hours ago [-]
Yes, they consistently "outplay" in the same way that a mobster who injures a rival's horse before a race is "outplaying" the rival.
I love this goofy pseudo-intellectual aloofness. "Ah yes, I as an enlightened fellow can sit above the fray and commentate objectively on the degradation of the norms and laws that have kept our society operating for centuries."
Unfortunately in addition to "outplaying" people by just lying to the public, they must also govern. And they can't. So they're going to get smacked in the midterms, functionally crippled until 2028, and then likely many of them will be thrown in prison for their various crimes.
ted_bunny 56 minutes ago [-]
Glad that's all figured out! Back to brunch.
CamperBob2 7 hours ago [-]
It would be utterly shocking if it didn’t result in corrupt retards getting elected.
Not wrong, but also not helpful.
jacquesm 1 days ago [-]
He would if he could. And let's not give him any ideas. Musk can do enough damage as it is.
DataDive 1 days ago [-]
If I understand this correctly the Europeans hope that by banning the spectrum where Starlink operates, they will spur the development of home grown operators that provide the same service ... is that realistic?
ArnoVW 1 days ago [-]
The europeans reserve strategic resources so that they can manage supply chain risk, since they consider the US one.
The US (dependably) proves them right, by threatening their supply lines.
ben_w 1 days ago [-]
Even if we don't spur the development of home grown operators (and IMO launch on the scale of Starlink is somewhat unrealistic any time soon), it will at least prevent us getting get another incidental dependency on US systems which we can be threatened with loss of access to at any point.
potatototoo99 1 days ago [-]
Of course, why wouldn't it? There's nothing unique about SpaceX's sattelites, or about putting them in orbit.
The internal cost per tonne to low Earth orbit differs
vastly between SpaceX’s Falcon 9 and Ariane’s best offer:
Vehicle Cost / tonne
Falcon 9 (booster recovery) ~$2 million
Ariane 64 ~$5 million
Starship (projected) <$500,000
To meaningfully compete, European launch providers must try to match these costs, then spend a decade putting these vehicles into orbit. That’s no easy task.
thisislife2 11 hours ago [-]
They should just outsource the launches to ISRO - one of the world's cheapest.
Timon3 21 hours ago [-]
No better time to start than now, right?
baxuz 11 hours ago [-]
Remind me, which starship?
CrimsonRain 1 days ago [-]
nothing unique about it but they come in last and own the market from companies in this field for decades. EU rulz!!11
JumpCrisscross 21 hours ago [-]
> they will spur the development of home grown operators
It’s already funded and scheduled to start launching in 2029 [1]. (Bit nerfed given Europe hasn’t yet gotten serious about launch…)
It is, there are lots of European launch companies that will have their first launches in 2027 and all target cheap launch services which is the key to Starlink. Isar Aerospace has already put a payload in orbit, but they are only one of many.
bryanlarsen 1 days ago [-]
Europe doesn't need the same service. A far higher percentage of homes in Europe have access true high speed internet over fiber or wires than the US does. Europe can get itself the same capability with far fewer satellites.
miohtama 24 hours ago [-]
We need equivalent service to guide our drones to Moscow when Putin comes to the rest of Europe
bryanlarsen 23 hours ago [-]
You don't need many satellites for that. Starlink is designed for millions of homes, not hundreds of drones.
JumpCrisscross 21 hours ago [-]
You need a production pipeline to replace the ones that get shot down.
M95D 13 hours ago [-]
1) Putin won't come for the rest of Europe.
2) Even if the does, why attack Moscow? Russian civilians have nothing to do with the war and we're not barbarians.
3) Even if we wanted to, Moscow as a target is so big that dead reckoning starting from Portugal is probably enough to hit it. There are also a lot of other means of guidance, including sun/stars, Gee and public FM radio stations.
Awww... more threats from Usania. This will definitely help... the EU move to more independence. More and more governments are dropping US made stuff as much as possible and pushing for local alternatives... way to go!
Nobody is afraid of the US anymore. You lost a war with Iran and they did not even put forward a Navy or an Air Force...
1718627440 12 hours ago [-]
More like being afraid of the US is independent of your own decisions, because they just hit you regardless.
QuiEgo 11 hours ago [-]
I mean you could say something similar about Russia in its asymmetric conflict with Ukraine. Both still have scary capacity.
stasomatic 23 hours ago [-]
That's brave, friend. I, living here, am annoyed of geriatrics in the wheelhouse.
customguy 13 hours ago [-]
It's not about age. Compare Sanders and Trump; their politics aside, just take being able to hold a conversation and have honest arguments, listen to advisors when they really are right, that sort of thing. Or Mamdami and Thiel. And hey, I'm sure there's some young-ish, bright, yet very capitalistic people who also have a good head on their shoulders, too. I just really like Mamdami, partly because how even the Dems shirked him before he won, and then Trump was like "I like that guy". He probably also likes Thiel. Which shows anybody can do anything, it's totally... random! :D
stasomatic 6 hours ago [-]
I am not talking about ageism, I am familiar with that myself. Once you hit 60+ or so, there is cognitive decline and retardation, you are less flexible and too set in your ways.
Calvin Coolidge 1923–1929 51
Herbert Hoover 1929–1933 54
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933–1945 51
Harry S. Truman 1945–1953 60
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953–1961 62
John F. Kennedy 1961–1963 43
Lyndon B. Johnson 1963–1969 55
Richard Nixon 1969–1974 56
Gerald Ford 1974–1977 61
Jimmy Carter 1977–1981 52
Ronald Reagan 1981–1989 69
George H. W. Bush 1989–1993 64
Bill Clinton 1993–2001 46
George W. Bush 2001–2009 54
Barack Obama 2009–2017 47
Donald Trump 2017–2021 70
Joe Biden 2021–2025 78
Donald Trump 2025–present 78
We need younger blood at the wheel. The geezers can golf.
ranger_danger 1 days ago [-]
That doesn't make their treatment of other countries go away.
hparadiz 1 days ago [-]
[flagged]
objclxt 1 days ago [-]
> Inability to project power beyond a few random pot shots at neighbors that aren't even the US.
This is a very funny way of saying “has de facto control of one of the world’s most important shipping lanes”.
ArnoVW 1 days ago [-]
Nobody said Iran was winning.
The problem is, if you tell everyone that you are a superpower, but then go on to not only not achieve your strategic goals (during a conflict of your choosing), but get to an unconfortable stalemate (that you cannot forcibly break) where you get to the point that you have to throw allies under the bus (not just Ukraine).. that's losing.
hparadiz 1 days ago [-]
I don't think anyone in Ukraine is losing sleep over Iran getting bombed.
ArnoVW 1 days ago [-]
They are?
The war in Iran has meant that the military resources of many actors are getting used for that conflict and are no longer available. Think patriot missiles to protect against balistic missiles.
It also means that the eyes of the world are distracted.
Unsurprisingly, the Trump administration is now getting anxious about the economical damage that Iran is inflicting, and has been forced to cut a deal with Russia.
But as said, that is just Ukraine.
The US has also been forced to reposition assets in Asia, to make up for the ones lost or expended in the Iran theater. They have shown to their allies in the middle east that having a US base is not a protection, but rather an invitation to be attacked.
Despite extensive military investment, Iran's neighbours are now realizing that the US presence and weapons they bought don't work.
The fact that a "muslim NATO" was recently created is not a coincidence. The world has taken notice.
Iran have been utterly destroyed, but they can still hurt the US. When your're a superpower, not winning when fighting a regional power IS losing.
lsaferite 1 days ago [-]
I mean, they could break it, but the devastation would be immense and then everyone would hate us even more. Getting involved was always a losing strategy.
mijoharas 1 days ago [-]
brent crude futures are trading above 109$/barrel right now. America didn't want that to happen, Iran did.
They won that one.
lejalv 1 days ago [-]
You're wrong about intervention in Iran, it started far earlier, with the coup to Mossadegh
hparadiz 1 days ago [-]
That's actually a fair point.
_diyar 1 days ago [-]
Note that the comment you’re replying to does not claim Iran is winning.
TacticalCoder 1 days ago [-]
> Note that the comment you’re replying to does not claim Iran is winning.
Well the comment literally says "you lost a war with Iran". If the US lost a war with Iran, the Iran won a war with the US.
But maybe that was an old war, from a few months ago, that Iran won. And now there's a new war and Iran ain't winning that one?
xethos 1 days ago [-]
If America had launched nukes during the cold war, the USSR would retaliate. Maybe via submarine-launched ICBM, maybe using a dead man's switch; methodology is irrelevant, because the question is this: If both countries end up radioactive desert, which country would be declared the winner? Or is it possible for neither country to be the definitive winner of a war?
bryanlarsen 1 days ago [-]
A pyrrhic victory and a loss are colloquially synonyms.
Timon3 21 hours ago [-]
Right - the US didn't just win. They've achieved victory at least 20 times so far!
jm4 1 days ago [-]
I was born in 1979. We have always been at odds with Iran and have had a few skirmishes, but this notion that we have been at war with them for 47 years only became a thing several months ago. There was never a time we were "at war" with them until Trump started one. You should stop consuming propaganda and learn more history.
redwall_hp 1 days ago [-]
"We've always been at war with Eurasia." - Republicans
hparadiz 1 days ago [-]
Not a Republican. They tend to pussy out instead of getting the job done. Not a fan.
If you listen carefully - it sounds like they do have Starshield, but only for internal access (not enabled for deep strikes)?
jacquesm 21 hours ago [-]
And they weren't using it for deep strikes. They were using it to enable the anti-Shahed drones which need very fast updates because their targets moving at a clip that is just manageable. Any kind of delay and they'll miss and that means another one of these crap machines lands on a Ukrainian city.
Messing with that is roughly the same as enabling Germany to bomb London more effectively using V2s.
amelius 1 days ago [-]
Ban Teslas in Europe then. Being selective works both ways.
ktosobcy 3 hours ago [-]
Actually banning facebook/instagram/twitter|x/tiktok would make so much more sense.
On the one hand - financial loses, on the other - more social sanity in the EU…
HarHarVeryFunny 1 days ago [-]
Not a bad idea - could couple it with further reducing European tariffs on Chinese EVs, which already outsell Tesla there.
panick21_ 9 hours ago [-]
We could even shock invest in railways and bikes and restrict all cars.
dzhiurgis 22 hours ago [-]
Yea pay for Putin's oil instead lol
fmobus 11 hours ago [-]
There are other EV brands here. Tesla's share of BEV Market in Europe is like 9%.
dzhiurgis 1 hours ago [-]
Hey grok, whats the best selling EV in Europe?
1718627440 12 hours ago [-]
There are tons of other vendors for electric vehicles.
JumpCrisscross 21 hours ago [-]
The baller move would be tariffing new sales of Tesla and Starlink unite (and a lower tariff on subscriptions paid by owners at the time the law id proposed) as long as Musk controls either and letting in a number of Chinese cars in exchange for China quitting it with helping Russia in Ukraine.
dzhiurgis 19 hours ago [-]
Imagine being this naive. Reading this hurts me physically.
bnteke 20 hours ago [-]
lmao
sega_sai 1 days ago [-]
It is the same starlink that was disabled on request of either WH or Musk to bully Ukraine.
DennisP 1 days ago [-]
That's Starshield, which is not under Musk's control. Reportedly the WH did make the decision.
It's the same tech but after Musk took flack for making a decision on Ukraine's military use, they split off a portion for the US government to control.
Lio 1 days ago [-]
Again, as repeated elsewhere in the thread, Musk requested that Starshield be slowed.
Anonymous source can say anything and telegraph can fully make it up also. And it also doesn't matter if Musk suggested it.
The fact is Starshield is controlled by US Govt and they decide what happens with it. Not Musk.
Starlink is controlled by SpaceX, Musk decides what happens with it. It is not allowed to use Starlink for most military purposes. Nothing changed now.
Timon3 20 hours ago [-]
Complaints about anonymous sources might be legitimate when there are legitimate protections for whistleblowers, but an autocratic regime like the US' current government does not deserve any benefit of the doubt - they literally keep openly threatening dissenters and whistleblowers!
Until the rule of law has been re-established and participants have been prosecuted, the standard you're holding sources to is unreasonable.
CrimsonRain 6 hours ago [-]
that's just your opinion; biased opinion at that. When the autocratic regime of Obama ruined Snowden's life, where was your outrage?
Timon3 5 hours ago [-]
No, it's pretty universally accepted that blowing the whistle is not safe under autocratic regimes.
You're not asking in good faith, so I won't dignify your whataboutism with a discussion.
DennisP 6 hours ago [-]
That seems an uncharitable assumption. I for one strongly object both to today's abuses and the treatment of Snowden, and GP may well feel the same.
Before the execution livestream was called off, Trump said that people who leak to the press should be shot. It doesn't take a big leap to see where this is going and what the stakes are.
surgical_fire 1 days ago [-]
> Ambassador Andrew Puzder warns about ‘devastating’ retaliation if Brussels goes ahead with plans to limit spectrum access for non-EU companies
Please do.
The more the US shows that it is an enemy to Europe the better.
I hope the leaders on this side of the pond grow cojones and start to treat the US and its companies as a threat to EU and the countries within.
> it’d be a lot easier if we were working with Europe instead of fighting Europe
Seriously? When will this shit show finally end?
vconnor 13 hours ago [-]
When the American empire finally crumbles. The final stages are always the most painful.
croes 1 days ago [-]
> Asked whether European companies should fear retaliation, Puzder told the FT that they “should be wary that it could happen and it would be very devastating for those companies”
Devastated companies can’t buy US products.
So go on and hit your exports again
red-iron-pine 9 hours ago [-]
now we see who trump really works for
jmclnx 1 days ago [-]
And yet companies are wondering why the EU is moving to build their own tech sector, separate from the US. Another reason why.
And the big winner of this is China. I heard China is building its own starlink and I would not be surprised they will offer verifiable guarantees to the EU on "spying" should the EU want to use China's version.
China should be sending Trump all kinds of Thank You notes. Trump already gave China the lead in Medical Research, Trump is helping China to take over Chip Development and he just started handing China the lead in AI.
You get what you vote for. At least the US will be the leader in Bible Research.
ponector 7 hours ago [-]
EU will have IRIS, it's own version of starshield by 2030.
cjs_ac 1 days ago [-]
> European companies face “devastating” retaliation from Washington if Brussels presses ahead with plans to restrict American rivals such as Elon Musk’s SpaceX from parts of the European market, the US ambassador to the EU has warned.
> Andrew Puzder’s warning comes after the European Commission this year proposed reserving part of its spectrum band that allows smartphones to connect directly to satellites for European players. That would limit the frequencies for Chinese and US companies such as SpaceX, which operates the Starlink satellite network.
> Asked whether European companies should fear retaliation, Puzder told the FT that they “should be wary that it could happen and it would be very devastating for those companies”, given the size of the American market.
Eh, this seems like a fairly even tit-for-tat, for once.
ben_w 1 days ago [-]
> Asked whether European companies should fear retaliation, Puzder told the FT that they “should be wary that it could happen and it would be very devastating for those companies”, given the size of the American market.
Would this even be "devastating"? Would any of them been able to sell in the US anyway, given the position Starlink is in? I see occasional headlines that Starlink is forcing out other US providers, from the US, but even without that kind of thing going on, this doesn't even feel like much of a threat.
amelius 1 days ago [-]
I wonder what history would be like if Trump had been president during WW2.
jacquesm 1 days ago [-]
Mein Deutsch waere viel besser gewesen...
tialaramex 1 days ago [-]
This forum in particular, but also our society in general is tremendously influenced by Grace Hopper's "compiler" (we would not call the thing Grace came up with a "compiler" today but we'd recognise her ideas). Grace appears to be the first person who noticed that the machine could be told to do the boring part where you turn your program into machine code to run on that machine. Grace's idea is meta-applicable, it applies not only to many other things but also to itself, things get out of hand very fast and that's how less than a century later we're here.
Grace was in the US Navy in World War II. Even in our real history where Donald Trump was not President, Grace did not meet their strict requirements for women and so she was only able to get in via a special exemption. Can you imagine in the "Make sure our Warriors look good on TV" world of Pete Hegseth that they'd ever accept Grace? No, the Navy is for big strong men.
UncleOxidant 1 days ago [-]
The UK would most likely be speaking German now. Possibly even the US.
ben_w 1 days ago [-]
The USSR would have taken over all of Europe, not just Eastern. What would have happened to the former British and French empires? Presumably they'd have been turned communist, but would their struggles for independence have gone the same way?
The Manhattan project would have been announced before it went anywhere, undermined during development and produced no real result. Japan would not have been nuked, but also would not have been invaded and the Pacific theatre would have in general developed in a completely different way. Without the American nuclear arsenal, the world may have skipped the cold war and nukes, or perhaps other states would have made them and used them in a heavy mutual bombardment without restraint.
Eventually in Europe, glasnost and perestroika would still have happened, and the USSR would still have fallen; but the geopolitical and economic importance of the USA would be little different to that of Brazil.
ponector 7 hours ago [-]
USSR couldn't do much without all western support. Lots of disposable soldiers but no weapons for them.
ben_w 6 hours ago [-]
It may have been limited, but the Axis forces were busy repeating Napoleon's classic blunder of freezing to death because Russia was too big to Blitzkrieg.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/order-limit-starshield-...
OP's article of course is about spectrum allocation in the US and potential trade retaliation, which isn't all that related to Musk's control of Starlink.
And the situation here is that Musk's instability is causing Europe to want to not depend on Starlink, and by extension not depend on the US. So now we're using other organs of the state to essentially coerce them into using a system that is de facto controlled by an unstable foreigner, but is part of the US defense apparatus.
[0] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/10/16/musk-appro...
It seems like you're saying the reporting "Elon Musk approaches White House with proposal to add travel speed limit to Starshield in Ukraine, which severely degrades Ukrainian defense" cannot possibly be because Musk and/or the White House want to damage Ukraine?
Musk didn’t do this, therefore the reporting is wrong.
The reporting is wrong, therefore Musk didn’t do this.
We don’t even need countervailing evidence. The whole perfect circular structure is right there for all to see.
Makes total sense!
That looks like outdated information. The request to slow Starshield came directly from Musk.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/10/16/musk-appro...
How do you suggest this is implemented, in a way that Musk has no way to control it?
That’s crazy. We didn’t charge him with treason?
How does the good things he may have done commercially weighed against his help and support to get Trump getting elected a second time? Is "the world generally better off" with Trump in Whitehouse now?
Yes, clearly a demonstrably unstable chief executive is the right man for the job.
If they were actually 5d chess players, you would expect their governance decisions to be less calamitously stupid, to at least achieve their evil goals if not their stated policy goals. The only thing they actually do well is enrich themselves, and that's just not that hard.
It’s not some brilliant “kayfabe,” it’s just retard populism, same as it ever was. Now it’s just come to a country with 1) virtually no controls on private political funding and 2) extreme wealth inequality. It would be utterly shocking if it didn’t result in corrupt retards getting elected.
I love this goofy pseudo-intellectual aloofness. "Ah yes, I as an enlightened fellow can sit above the fray and commentate objectively on the degradation of the norms and laws that have kept our society operating for centuries."
Unfortunately in addition to "outplaying" people by just lying to the public, they must also govern. And they can't. So they're going to get smacked in the midterms, functionally crippled until 2028, and then likely many of them will be thrown in prison for their various crimes.
Not wrong, but also not helpful.
The US (dependably) proves them right, by threatening their supply lines.
https://ioplus.nl/en/posts/these-are-the-six-european-altern...
It’s already funded and scheduled to start launching in 2029 [1]. (Bit nerfed given Europe hasn’t yet gotten serious about launch…)
[1] https://www.grosswald.org/european-commission-spacerise-iris...
2) Even if the does, why attack Moscow? Russian civilians have nothing to do with the war and we're not barbarians.
3) Even if we wanted to, Moscow as a target is so big that dead reckoning starting from Portugal is probably enough to hit it. There are also a lot of other means of guidance, including sun/stars, Gee and public FM radio stations.
4) And why dones instead of ballistic missiles?
Calvin Coolidge 1923–1929 51
Herbert Hoover 1929–1933 54
Franklin D. Roosevelt 1933–1945 51
Harry S. Truman 1945–1953 60
Dwight D. Eisenhower 1953–1961 62
John F. Kennedy 1961–1963 43
Lyndon B. Johnson 1963–1969 55
Richard Nixon 1969–1974 56
Gerald Ford 1974–1977 61
Jimmy Carter 1977–1981 52
Ronald Reagan 1981–1989 69
George H. W. Bush 1989–1993 64
Bill Clinton 1993–2001 46
George W. Bush 2001–2009 54
Barack Obama 2009–2017 47
Donald Trump 2017–2021 70
Joe Biden 2021–2025 78
Donald Trump 2025–present 78
We need younger blood at the wheel. The geezers can golf.
This is a very funny way of saying “has de facto control of one of the world’s most important shipping lanes”.
The problem is, if you tell everyone that you are a superpower, but then go on to not only not achieve your strategic goals (during a conflict of your choosing), but get to an unconfortable stalemate (that you cannot forcibly break) where you get to the point that you have to throw allies under the bus (not just Ukraine).. that's losing.
The war in Iran has meant that the military resources of many actors are getting used for that conflict and are no longer available. Think patriot missiles to protect against balistic missiles.
It also means that the eyes of the world are distracted.
Unsurprisingly, the Trump administration is now getting anxious about the economical damage that Iran is inflicting, and has been forced to cut a deal with Russia.
But as said, that is just Ukraine.
The US has also been forced to reposition assets in Asia, to make up for the ones lost or expended in the Iran theater. They have shown to their allies in the middle east that having a US base is not a protection, but rather an invitation to be attacked.
Despite extensive military investment, Iran's neighbours are now realizing that the US presence and weapons they bought don't work.
The fact that a "muslim NATO" was recently created is not a coincidence. The world has taken notice.
Iran have been utterly destroyed, but they can still hurt the US. When your're a superpower, not winning when fighting a regional power IS losing.
Well the comment literally says "you lost a war with Iran". If the US lost a war with Iran, the Iran won a war with the US.
But maybe that was an old war, from a few months ago, that Iran won. And now there's a new war and Iran ain't winning that one?
I agree. History is important. What would you call this?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=T2ZEMRKjTz8
Messing with that is roughly the same as enabling Germany to bomb London more effectively using V2s.
On the one hand - financial loses, on the other - more social sanity in the EU…
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/order-limit-starshield-...
It's the same tech but after Musk took flack for making a decision on Ukraine's military use, they split off a portion for the US government to control.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2026/10/16/musk-appro...
The fact is Starshield is controlled by US Govt and they decide what happens with it. Not Musk.
Starlink is controlled by SpaceX, Musk decides what happens with it. It is not allowed to use Starlink for most military purposes. Nothing changed now.
Until the rule of law has been re-established and participants have been prosecuted, the standard you're holding sources to is unreasonable.
You're not asking in good faith, so I won't dignify your whataboutism with a discussion.
It's probably best not to feed the troll.
Please do.
The more the US shows that it is an enemy to Europe the better.
I hope the leaders on this side of the pond grow cojones and start to treat the US and its companies as a threat to EU and the countries within.
Seriously? When will this shit show finally end?
Devastated companies can’t buy US products.
So go on and hit your exports again
And the big winner of this is China. I heard China is building its own starlink and I would not be surprised they will offer verifiable guarantees to the EU on "spying" should the EU want to use China's version.
China should be sending Trump all kinds of Thank You notes. Trump already gave China the lead in Medical Research, Trump is helping China to take over Chip Development and he just started handing China the lead in AI.
You get what you vote for. At least the US will be the leader in Bible Research.
> Andrew Puzder’s warning comes after the European Commission this year proposed reserving part of its spectrum band that allows smartphones to connect directly to satellites for European players. That would limit the frequencies for Chinese and US companies such as SpaceX, which operates the Starlink satellite network.
> Asked whether European companies should fear retaliation, Puzder told the FT that they “should be wary that it could happen and it would be very devastating for those companies”, given the size of the American market.
Eh, this seems like a fairly even tit-for-tat, for once.
Would this even be "devastating"? Would any of them been able to sell in the US anyway, given the position Starlink is in? I see occasional headlines that Starlink is forcing out other US providers, from the US, but even without that kind of thing going on, this doesn't even feel like much of a threat.
Grace was in the US Navy in World War II. Even in our real history where Donald Trump was not President, Grace did not meet their strict requirements for women and so she was only able to get in via a special exemption. Can you imagine in the "Make sure our Warriors look good on TV" world of Pete Hegseth that they'd ever accept Grace? No, the Navy is for big strong men.
The Manhattan project would have been announced before it went anywhere, undermined during development and produced no real result. Japan would not have been nuked, but also would not have been invaded and the Pacific theatre would have in general developed in a completely different way. Without the American nuclear arsenal, the world may have skipped the cold war and nukes, or perhaps other states would have made them and used them in a heavy mutual bombardment without restraint.
Eventually in Europe, glasnost and perestroika would still have happened, and the USSR would still have fallen; but the geopolitical and economic importance of the USA would be little different to that of Brazil.